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Making a Case For the Firing of Philip Fulmer.
Posted by Thomas the Terrible on September 17, 2007
In a way this is a very hard posting to write, in another way it isn’t. I admire Philip Fulmer for what he has done for the University of Tennessee. I can think of no other man who has given more to Rocky Top. As game of football constantly changes, so to must Tennessee. I feel the game of football and how it’s played has passed Fulmer by.
Let’s look at some numbers, going from 1999:
- Years without SEC title: 8
- Years without BCS bowl: 7
- Years without top 10 ranking: 5
- Years without AP Top 25 ranking: 2000, 2002, 2005, (2006-25th)
- Years with 3 or more losses: 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (5 straight years and 7 out of 8 )
- Years with multiple losses to unranked teams: 2003, 2005
- Years with loss in last 2 games of season: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 (EIGHT straight years and counting)
So much for SEC domination. 2005 was clearly Fulmer’s worst year. The role of patsy was played by Randy Sanders. Now I’m so sure he was the problem. Remember Peyton Manning’s last game as Vol? It was a 42-14 ass whipping curtsy of Nebraska . Randy Sanders wasn’t the offensive coordinator then. Can we as an Orange Nation blame Sanders for bowl loss to Penn State? I didn’t think so. But Randy Sanders was the OC for the Rally in the Valley victory over LSU. Sanders is now at Kentucky, a team we will most likely lose to this year. Since Sanders has gone there they are ranked. UK also won their bowl game last year. They beat a top 10 program Saturday, while Tennessee…didn’t.
The decline started in 1999, but until recently has really started to snowball. Our defense goes down another notch every year. There isn’t anything special about the special teams, except that maybe Tennessee is the only school to allow 2 kick-off returns for touchdowns this year. Every since that bone headed move of Trooper Taylor to receivers coach, our running game has been anemic. Don’t get me started on the lines, however I’ll credit the offensive line for no sacs Saturday, but then again Florida didn’t have any pass rushers either.
Now after Saturday, one really has to question Coach Fulmer. We now know that Ainge’s finger is a bigger deal than originally thought. Many of us have kept hearing about the receivers that were coming in, were supposed to be fast particularly Kenny O’Neal. On the coaches show Fulmer stated he wishes he could find a way to get Kenny in the game, here’s a suggestion turn around and tell him to go in the game. Why sit such talented players? Fulmer has done a great job recruiting, but where are those recruits come game time? I know not every recruit will live up to expectations, but when those recruits aren’t played how can they? The exception being Eric Berry of course.
As I stated in the beginning of this diatribe, I respect, admire and appreciate what Fulmer has done for Tennessee, but one can not change with the times if they aren’t willing to adapt and adjust. Fulmer has proven that. I’m hoping beyond hope that I’m wrong, but I honestly do not seeing this team beating Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas or Kentucky. Quite frankly after the way Mississippi State played Saturday, we could lose to them as well.
If Fulmer was fired I would like to see all the coaches fired with the exception of Trooper Taylor & Cutcliff.
My wish list of coaches, if Fulmer is fired are as follows:
- David Cutcliff: Everyone knows his ties to school.
- Jon Gruden: began his coaching career with the University of Tennessee where he was an assistant from 1986 to ’87. It was at Tennessee where Jon would meet his wife to be, cheerleader Cindy Brooks.
- Rich Brooks: Look at what is done at Kentucky.
- Nick Saban: Why not? It’s a great way to fuck Alabama.
- Chan Gailey: Who can argue with the things he’s done with Georgia Tech? Imagine what he could accomplish with the facilitates and recruiting base Tennessee has.
- Jimbo Fisher: He was the mastermind behind LSU’s success and now has taken the show the Florida State. He was also a big part the recent recruiting success LSU as had as well. One problem though, in all likely hood Les Miles is gone to Michigan at the end of the season. LSU would be fools not to try and hire him.
But those are my personal choices. If you have any thoughts as to who else would make a good coach or have any inside info, post a comment or e-mail me.
So I profess on this day 9/17/07.
tTt
Joel said
Great post. Lot’s of details that I didn’t even consider. Hard to believe it’s been that long since a BCS bowl appearance. I agree with Fisher and Cutcliffe on your list of coaches. I’ve never been the world’s best Gruden or Gailey fan, but here’s my list (like you, I no longer have any connections to the athletic dept.)
*Charlie Strong-Excellent recruiter, D Co=ordinator (I’m sorry, co-coordinator) for the Gators
*Bo Pellini-Another D Co-ordinator from LSU. Like you said, LSU would probably go after Fisher…
*Rich Rodriguez-Yes Alabama almost had him, but maybe he can be persuaded. After all, Vol fans are not as psycho as Bammers
* Steve Sarkisian (sp?)-Unless USC opens up, it’ll be a great chance for him. Plus, he’s young
*Norm Chow-Who better than a guy who has coached Heisman trophy QB’s for years??? Plus, it’ll be his own show
*Jim Leavitt-Like Gailey, what could he do with the recruiting base and facilities???
Thomas the Terrible said
I almost put Charlie down, I am just not sure what his mindset is offensively.
Bo Pellini might be the next LSU head coach.
I like Rich Rodriguez, I really do, but I worry about his teams defensively.
I didn’t think about Steve. Good call.
Norm I worry about his age.
Jim Leavitt, didn’t think about him either.
I also forgot to put down Jeff Fisher the Titians coach.
TideDruid said
Paul Johnson of Navy might be a good choice, although his offense is older than JoePa.
Tommy Tuberville might be looking for a job by the end of the year as well.(kidding.)
Thomas the Terrible said
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tommy is looking for a job, they lost to South Florida
Joel said
I know this might sound crazy, but after Zook gets run from Illinois, I’d hire him as a special teams coach and make him in charge of recruiting. Nobody ever said he couldn’t recruit like crazy…
Ken Crow said
Found your website/blog today quite by accident. I have to say I have been laughing for about an hour now.
First let me say I am a devout Tennessee fan for all sports but mostly football and ladies basketball. My eldest son is a sophomore in Aerospace Eng. at Tennessee and I live in Arizona so there you have it.
I have long said well not so long, appx. 6-7 years that it was time for Coach Fulmer to seek retirement. He reminds me alot of the late great Tom Landry. You have so much respect for him and you’re heart strings tell you “put him on a pedistal”. But in the end you have to win and win big more often than not at a major program such as the Vols. Fans and larger programs will put up with an occassional losing season or a less than stellar year to rebuild etc, but Coach Fulmers problem all along has been that he “plays not lose” rather than coaching and playing to win. He has always and from day 2 been (to borrow poker terms) a calling station rather than “pushing” all-in. He would rather be conservative than “go for it” mentality.
I have the deepest respect for the Coach, but yes, it is time to go play golf and play with the grandchildren. I do not think Tennessee is willing to pay what LSU has for a Saban, and I do not think that Grudan would be willing to step down to Tennessee. I do not have particular favorite, however it would be wise to go “outside” and just replace the whole staff or a majority of it, to get some “fresh thoughts” in there. It is time Tennessee rose the fear level that a USC has when it walks onto the field.
volumni said
Agreed with most of your coaching suggestions with the exception of a few: Norm Chow, great coach, but like you said his age is a factor, we wouldn’t have him that long; Jeff Fisher, just got an extension from the Titans, aka not leaving; Paul Johnson, another good coach and you have to admire what he’s done at Navy but as was said his offense is too old and won’t work in the SEC. Some have even said Kirk Ferentz which would be okay except for the fact that he runs the exact same offense as we have now and Phil is a better recruiter so I’d rather keep Phil
I would go with:
Jim Levitt: look what he’s done with absolutely nothing. Also runs an offense(the spread) that is keeping up with the times unlike what we have now
Jimbo Fisher: Can’t really argue with that track record
Steve Sarkisian: Has made USC look like they didn’t even lose Norm Chow
Rich Rod: love his system, but he didn’t go to Bama doubt he’d come to UT, I’d love it if he did though!
Bo Pellini: Has looked like a genious so far this year, I’d love to have a coach that opens everything up the way he did against Va Tech, but agreed that depending on the Mich job he could be in line at LSU.
I really would love to see someone come in and change everything up. A completely new offensive system, something more inline with the way football is being played now-a-days. We have the playmakers to do it!! It might take some time but I’m willing to wait if it means EXCITING football is to come.
Snowman said
Word around Neyland Stadium employees is that Jon Gruden recently purchased a home in Sevier County. Is he setting the pieces to the puzzle together for the end of the season?
Pretty Boy Floyd said
What do you think about Bill Cohwer? I think he is what we need.
Thomas the Terrible said
I would love it.
Big Bad John said
Firing the nation’s winningest (active) coach for losing (2) SEC games in this the wackiest year ever borders on the absurd. Bama may have found something in Saban, but how many years and how many coaches did they did toss away in the process? The Vol Nation is accustomed to winning, and it was and is due to Phil Fulmer. At this point, with Tennessee leading the East Division of the toughest conference in America with the youth and inexperience on defense, if Tennessee gets to the SEC Championship Game (a very realistic possibility) Fulmer gets the nod for Coach of the Year. Besides that, to buy out Fulmer and his staff, and bring in replace him with “Chucky” and crew would cost the university what? 10 million? That seems like a high price for a profssional coach with less than a .500 winning percentage, or a flash in the pan coordinator with no SEC head coaching experience.
Thomas the Terrible said
“Firing the nation’s winningest (active) coach for losing (2) SEC games in this the wackiest year ever borders on the absurd.”
You’re right it is…that’s why I also posted all those other stats to help make my point.
“At this point, with Tennessee leading the East Division of the toughest conference in America with the youth and inexperience on defense, if Tennessee gets to the SEC Championship Game (a very realistic possibility) Fulmer gets the nod for Coach of the Year.”
Tennessee leads because of sheer luck and sheer luck alone. Croom or Brooks will get coach of the year.
“That seems like a high price for a profssional coach with less than a .500 winning percentage, or a flash in the pan coordinator with no SEC head coaching experience.”
Hmmm… Nick Saban & Urban Meyer both had no SEC coaching experience…they only won National titles.
Big Bad John said
“Tennessee leads because of sheer luck, and sheer luck alone. Croom or Brooks will get coach of the year.”
What you call “sheer luck,” others, like myself call it, “parity in competition.” Brooks’ Wildcats are fading at the most critical point in the season, and Croom may, but I think Fulmer gets it for keeping his team focused despite the negative distractions.
“Hmmm…Nick Saban and Urban Meyer both had no SEC coaching experience…they won National titles.”
I stand corrected. Great! Now, which one of those two would be willing to leave their programs in favor of Tennessee? Another Hmmm…Didn’t Fulmer win a national title also?
Thomas the Terrible said
“What you call “sheer luck,” others, like myself call it, “parity in competition.” Brooks’ Wildcats are fading at the most critical point in the season, and Croom may, but I think Fulmer gets it for keeping his team focused despite the negative distractions.”
You mean like the negative distractions of giving up over 100 points in 3 games? Giving up a 21 point halftime lead? If we didn’t comment that penalty and have to re-kick that would be another game we lost. And if Georgis didn’t beat Florida we would be looking behind that’s called luck. There was a time when UT didn’t have to rely on other teams to control their destiny.
“I stand corrected. Great! Now, which one of those two would be willing to leave their programs in favor of Tennessee? Another Hmmm…Didn’t Fulmer win a national title also?”
There’s plenty of good coaches that are willing to leave their programs for Tennessee. Fulmer won a title when the game played a different way and the defense was in top 10, now it’s what 98th out of 119? That’s progress!!
Big Bad John said
First of all, the penalty we “committed” was a “dead ball foul” meaning the first kick never happened. Also, the other “sheer lucky” event you mention, Florida’s loss to Georgia, (while technically may be called an upset) was anything but luck. The Bulldogs beat the Gators fair and square. By parity, I meant any team can beat can other team in the SEC. It’s COLLEGE football. That’s means that most players get only 4 years of eligibility.
My biggest concern in replacing Fulmer is that it just doesn’t make sense. Why replace a Joe Torre with a JOe Giraldi?
Thomas the Terrible said
“First of all, the penalty we “committed” was a “dead ball foul” meaning the first kick never happened.”
Either I can say it’s luck or I can say thanks to our undisciplined team due to the coaches, we won. Which is it?
“Also, the other “sheer lucky” event you mention, Florida’s loss to Georgia, (while technically may be called an upset) was anything but luck.”
What I saying is that if Georgia hadn’t beaten Florida, or if Florida hadn’t lost to LSU or Kentucky…then we would still be in second place. Again I say it’s better to win and not rely on other teams to control your destiny.
You’re the only Tennessee fan I’ve seen fighting for Fulmer.
Big Bad John said
Actually Terry The Terrible, I’m not fighting for Fulmer as much as calling attention to the insanity of calling for any coach’s head who has his team poised to win the toughest conference in the nation.
Doing his with a very young and inexperienced team (58 freshmen, and 35 sophomores on the roster) means growing pains (early season mistakes) but by season’s end, makes Fulmer’s feat seem even more incedible.
By contrast, Boston College has 36 more upperclassmen (jr’s and sr’s) than Tennessee.
This week SHOULD give the young Vols an oppotunity to gain some much needed confidence and experience going in the Arkansas, Vandy, and Kentucky games.
Assuming the Vols win these final four games, (good, bad, or ugly…a “W”s a “W”) The Vols will not only be peaking at the right time, but Fulmer will be hailed by the media for keeping his team together and focused despite the constant back-stabbing , back-biting, and pot-stirring by all the Negative Nancies, Willie What Have You Done for Me Latelies, and the Freddy Fair-weather Vol Fans, who will be dining on the All-the-Crow-You-Can-Eat Buffet during the SEC Championship Game tailgate parties.
Thomas the Terrible said
Fulmer didn’t do anything to put the Vols into this position, the fact that other teams lost did.
I remember when Tennessee had 33 or more upperclassmen…we went 5-6…thus proving coaching does make a difference.
Big Bad John said
“Fulmer didn’t do anything to put the Vols in this position, the fact that other teams lost did.”
Funny; When Fulmer’s team loses, it’s all his fault, and when they win, he doesn’t get any credit.
The last 4 SEC games resulted in 3 huge wins. Combine that with wins against Arkanas, Vandy, and Kentucky will be 5 SEC wins in the last 6 games.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that would be unequaled by any team in the SEC this year?
Of course, that wouldn’t seem to fit in your agenda huh? (Kinda like 2 of my most recent factual posts I suppose).
Oh well, I made my point. So go ahead, delete away…
Thomas the Terrible said
“Funny; When Fulmer’s team loses, it’s all his fault, and when they win, he doesn’t get any credit.”
That was going to back to the fact that if Florida hadn’t have lost we would be where we had been the past several years second place, or even third.
“The last 4 SEC games resulted in 3 huge wins. Combine that with wins against Arkanas, Vandy, and Kentucky will be 5 SEC wins in the last 6 games.”
Don’t count your chickens until they hatch, we haven’t played those games yet.
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but that would be unequaled by any team in the SEC this year?”
Again quit looking to the future you never know what is coming around the bend.
“Of course, that wouldn’t seem to fit in your agenda huh? (Kinda like 2 of my most recent factual posts I suppose).”
My agenda? You mean my opinion, which is what I fully express here and if that bothers you then don’t complain about it just don’t comeback, if it doesn’t bother you, then again don’t complain about it. As for as your other posts I’m not sure what you’re talking about but this is from a previous post you made:
“I’m not fighting for Fulmer as much as calling attention to the insanity of calling for any coach’s head who has his team poised to win the toughest conference in the nation.”
Are you sure you’re not fighting for Fulmer? Because now you’re what if mode “what if we win and what this happens”, still wouldn’t change my opinion that the game of football has passed Fulmer by.
“Oh well, I made my point. So go ahead, delete away…”
No actually you haven’t made any point, and I haven’t been here to delete any post so I have no idea where that is coming from.
Big Bad John said
Why is it that when you present a hypothetical “IF” in defending your point, it’s ok…”IF Florida hadn’t have lost…” (past tense) but when I suggest a very real potential scenario (future tense) I’m in the “what if mode?” In all fairness, my “if” can occur, while your “if” can’t.
The points that I made, but magically disappeared within minutes of posting, simply tended to support my position all along. That being, Fulmer (while certainly not perfect) wins nearly 80% of the time, (more than JoePa, Bowden, Spurrier, and anyone else you care to mention). And, in the last 10 years, has given Tennessee a national championship, and 5 SEC crowns. He leads the nation in several categories besides winning percentage. He has put 69 players in the NFL, (including 13 first round picks) and in addition to the long list of boards he serves on like the National College Coaches Association, The Boys and Girls Clubs, and Child Protective Services, perhaps more importantly, is that in the past 2 years the Vols finished first in the SEC in academic average, winning back to back SEC Honor Roll Awards.
“IF” you want to quote statistics, these seem conspicuously overlooked.
While I don’t particularly consider myself as strictly pro-Fulmer, I am definitely pro-Vol. Like I stated earlier, unless you can covincee me that someone can guarantee the results Fulmer has, I say let him finish the season, and then see how the situation stands. My biggest concern is that while Fulmer is obviously too conservative at times, he is still the most consistent winner in the game; (both as a coach and as a moral compass for his players.
Why not put all the info out there, not just your opinion, and let the chips fall where they may.
Thomas the Terrible said
“Why is it that when you present a hypothetical “IF” in defending your point, it’s ok…”IF Florida hadn’t have lost…” (past tense) but when I suggest a very real potential scenario (future tense) I’m in the “what if mode?” In all fairness, my “if” can occur, while your “if” can’t.”
My “if” is dealing with what we know the results would be have been your if deals with the future which is so far untold.
“The points that I made, but magically disappeared within minutes of posting, simply tended to support my position all along. That being, Fulmer (while certainly not perfect) wins nearly 80% of the time, (more than JoePa, Bowden, Spurrier, and anyone else you care to mention).”
Joe Pa and Bowden literally had to build their programs from scratch, Fulmer didn’t.
“And, in the last 10 years, has given Tennessee a national championship, and 5 SEC crowns.”
5? Bahahaha He’s only won two SEC Titles in his entire tenure. Let’s break down some SEC coaches shall we.
Steve Spurrier – 6 SEC Titles, 1 National Title in 14 SEC seasons
Spurrier has more SEC titles than Urban Meyer, Mark Richt, and Phil Fulmer combined.
Nick Saban – 2 SEC Titles, 1 National Title in 5 SEC seasons
The Liar is a great coach.
Urban Meyer – 1 SEC Title, 1 National Title in 2 SEC seasons
Fulmer has a combined record of 8-18 against the 4 coaches above him, and hasn’t won anything tangible since 1998.
“He has put 69 players in the NFL, (including 13 first round picks) and in addition to the long list of boards he serves on like the National College Coaches Association, The Boys and Girls Clubs, and Child Protective Services, perhaps more importantly, is that in the past 2 years the Vols finished first in the SEC in academic average, winning back to back SEC Honor Roll Awards.”
I’m looking at football records at Tennessee and nothing else, but since you mentioned it, other SEC coaches serve on a lot of boards. I live in Columbia so I know Spurrier serves on the SC Special Olympics board among others, but that’s not the point at all. Also while a lot of Vols get drafted to the NFL they don’t necessarily make the team.
“While I don’t particularly consider myself as strictly pro-Fulmer, I am definitely pro-Vol. Like I stated earlier, unless you can covincee me that someone can guarantee the results Fulmer has, I say let him finish the season, and then see how the situation stands. My biggest concern is that while Fulmer is obviously too conservative at times, he is still the most consistent winner in the game; (both as a coach and as a moral compass for his players.”
I never said he shouldn’t finish the season at all, but moral compass? Ha ha ha I guess that compass didn’t work for Coker who was dismissed today plus we’ve had a lot of players kicked out over the years, and let’s not forget about Leonard Little, Travis Henry & Al Wilson either that compass certainly didn’t carry over to the NFL.
“Why not put all the info out there, not just your opinion, and let the chips fall where they may.”
Again I am talking about football stats and I have provided them. And the stats aren’t my opinion those are fact.
Joel said
Hey John, your last name wouldn’t happen to be Fulmer would it???
FulmerDoesn'tWalkOnWater said
No shit. I believe John is up on Fulmer’s cock more than his wife.
Big Bad John said
Tommy;
I apologize for the incorrect information on the SEC Championships.
While making an argument either for or against Fulmer, any point based on an “if” (in either sense, past or future is futile. For example, “if” Florida was undefeated, they would be in the SEC Championship Game, is a given. “If” Tennessee wins out of course is not.
Also, for this discussion’s sake, I’ll concede Fulmer is not as imaginative as Spurrier, Saban or Meyer, if you’ll concede that there’s not a snowball’s chance in Hell that they are candidates for the Fulmer departure (if there is one.)
Joel…I’m not against firing Fulmer at all…as long as his replacement can keep us competitive without an indefinite “rebuilding period.”
Fulmer Doesn’t Walk on Water…This is a blog for Vol football not cocks.
If you want to discuss cocks, ask your boyfriend/husband/significant other to find you a gay site.
Thomas the Terrible said
“While making an argument either for or against Fulmer, any point based on an “if” (in either sense, past or future is futile. For example, “if” Florida was undefeated, they would be in the SEC Championship Game, is a given. “If” Tennessee wins out of course is not.”
I’ll agree with that & it’s Thomas not Tommy.
“Also, for this discussion’s sake, I’ll concede Fulmer is not as imaginative as Spurrier, Saban or Meyer, if you’ll concede that there’s not a snowball’s chance in Hell that they are candidates for the Fulmer departure (if there is one.)”
I know we’ll never get any of those guys, not would any self respecting Volunteer fan want them. If Tennessee wins the east, Phil stays, but something needs to be done about the other coaches. You have to admit the Chavis defense of old hasn’t been on campus for quite some time, and Phil needs to let Cut go or let Cut call the plays with interference.
For the record this blog is an all sports blog it isn’t dedicated solely to Tennessee. Recent postings have included OJ, Andy Reid and PSU.
Big Bad John said
Again, I apologize Thomas, and please know I meant no disrespect.
I’d had fun here being the “Devil’s Advocate, and have enjoyed and appreciate your knowledgeable and timely responses.
I’m grateful for the opportunity to present a different point of view, and for the decent manner you presented your counterpoints. I learned a few things in my time here.
Thanks again.
Joel said
“Joel…I’m not against firing Fulmer at all…as long as his replacement can keep us competitive without an indefinite “rebuilding period.”
Big Bad John,
This would be my only concern would be who would come in next and what would be their coaching styles/schemes and how do they recruit. The cupboard won’t exactly be bare so no major rebuilding will need to be done except for breaking in a new QB and a few other players. IF a change is to be made, it should be done ASAP…